Then I wanted to get right with him, and urgently. What do you do when life doesnt fit into neat categories? For awhile, Id say shed been robbed, or ripped off. Together, Kate and Kelly explore the phrases we cling to in order to find deeper connection and meaning during difficult times. When I read that, I just kept thinking of how scared Ive been about what I call being a zombie. You start with, Its like this.. The space between doubt and belief is often unpopular, but the tension can be held. Dont worry, and she said, Well, my problem is I cant zip my dress by myself, so I thought if it was a woman, I could ask her to come in, and zip my dress, and I thought, Thats the tiny moments that are so gut-wrenching for a new widow. Corrigan and her guests meander with insight and humor toward that inevitable moment when you think, "Exactly!" The Best Show with Tom Scharpling a day ago Shes not going to hold their babies.. Kelly Corrigan:Yeah. Join New York Times bestselling author Kelly Corrigan as she choreographs big-ideas conversations and personal truth-telling with some of the creative thinkers and artists who define our time. Kelly Corrigan:But you know, if Im jumping in with my fancy solution two and a half minutes in, I just cut you off, and then we leave each other, and I have this little high like, Ah, I just really helped her, and she walks away thinking, She didnt hear anything I said. Kate Bowler:Yeah, the indignity. Onward, my dears. The words we speak, and the words spoken over us. Your mantra is fantastic and is sounds like it has served you well through the years! Kelly Corrigan:You dont always need such a plan, or an agenda, or whatever. Then I wanted to get right with him, and urgently. We are so glad that you joined us for this conversation and found it enjoyable. In other words, it could happen to you tomorrow.. Team Everything Happens, Hi Kate, I mean, that was my big experience of your book. Kelly Corrigan is a New York Times bestselling author whose first children's book, Hello World, is available now. She was really, really into manners, and as kind of an act of gratitude, not in an uptight, British way, but as a Look at us eating a meal together, like, Nobody should eat before the last person gets down. He had things to do for days, and days, and days, and eulogies to write, and people to hug, and people to thank, and accounts to close, and cars to sell, and he had work to do, both emotional and just literally logistics. You are everywhere they are., Kelly Corrigan:I really believe that, even though Im skeptical, and Im mad at people who say, Her spirits still here, and stuff. Kelly Corrigan:Theyre never going to not do that, and thats how theyre going to raise their kids, and that means shes still here. Its all this cumulative effect of a thousand minuscule moments. Kelly Corrigan:The magic of Tell me more is you start telling me what youre upset about, and I fall for the first thing you say, and I start solving for that. Yeah. My son was, of course, distraught and felt the dog was a part of the family and worth the trouble. To learn more about Everything Happens for a Reason (and Other Lies Ive Loved) by Kate Bowler, click here. Like, Im just an ordinary person, and I make all the mistakes that everybody else makes and maybe even 10% more, and then there she was, and what she would have done for the life that I was kind of rushing through, multitasking my way through day, after day, and you know, sort of feeling snappish, and then catching myself, and feeling like I should be different. Absolutely enjoy these, the wisdom, the calm, the gentle reminder of our true reality and the essentiality of the connections we make and need to survive and help each other. Kelly Corrigan:Its like a game changer. I mean, people are getting colon cancer at your age all the time. Kate Bowler:Yeah. Her memoirs include " The Middle Place," and her first children's. Thanks for sharing, Diane! So, I just really went bananas, because on top of the shirt problem, I went downstairs to clean the kitchen, and I found everybodys bowls, and spoons, and cups, and I had that reaction that so many women have, which is, Well I guess Im the least busy. Ask the dancers, and the athletes, the painters, and musicians. It was the very last thing that I wrote, and you may be able to relate to this, theres always one part of a book that writes itself, at least for me, where its like, I guess Ive been thinking about this long enough, I guess Ive been living this long enough that its all kind of been subconsciously forming, and now Im just about taking dictation here, and thats the way that was. Hopefully youve continued to connect with Kate and Kellys books. Kelly Corrigan:Sure, my pleasure. We can remove the first video in the list to add this one. Thats where its at. Ill definitely remember this motto and will probably end up using it, if you dont mind . Kelly Corrigan:I mean, unless youre a monk, and youre meditating for 60 days in a mountain somewhere. For Dr. White was the first person who ever told Michael he could write. Yeah. The ambiguity is quite isolating. This interview is perfection. Just get in the mix, get in the line of fire. Kate Bowler:I guess Ill see you soon. One of the hardest things Ive been wrestling with is not having any clear language for this weird place between sick and healthy, weak and strong. I should not be mad about this. It kind of reminded me though, when I was little, my family used to have these mottos, but the mottos were stuff like, Dont get crumbs on the baby, or Be nice to mom. Welcome to Kelly Corrigan Wonders, a place for people who like to laugh while they think and find it useful to look closely at ourselves and our weird ways in the hopes that knowing more and feeling more will help us do more and be better. We look forward to having you join in on future conversations! Kate Bowler:Getting back to life has been really tricky. Those ordinary consonants and vowels that, when strung together, offer meaning and points of entry for others. Kilpy But the fact is if I said, Tell me more, go on, what else, youd say the next thing, and the next thing, and the next thing, and it would be like the thing behind the thing, behind the thing is where really the pain is, and if I had waited way longer, I wouldve been able to say, Oh, I understand.. Its the only way to keep the last bit of sanity. Kelly Corrigan:Thats not a headline anybody wants to read. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Kelly Corrigan Wonders on Apple Podcasts with Kelly Corrigan When bestselling author Kelly Corrigan experienced the death of her dad and dear friend back-to-back, she couldn't shake the feeling that she wasn't living as gratefully as she wanted to. Ill definitely have to write this one down and bring it out on a particularly overwhelming day! Kelly Corrigan:And how do we earn it? Kate Bowler:Well, your book has such a wonderful collection of phrases around essays, stuff like Tell me more, and you write about incredible things people can say when theyre figuring out the road ahead. I mean, its a little bit like, Just keep saying yes. You know, When in doubt, say Sure, Ill do that, just to see what happens next, just to see who you might meet. Find me online at @KateCBowler, and Id love to hear what you think of this episode. The idea that we just sort of wander around, consume things until we die, like were just a series of small appetites without any deep, rich, meaningful, satisfying connection. Kelly mentions the Potted Plant Theory of Parenting. She's a daughter who still mourns the loss of her dad, a mom to her amazing daughters, a wife to her fantastic husband, a sister, a good friend, and a woman trying her best to leave this world a better and a brighter one for future generations. Jewel and Kelly Corrigan have a conversation in NYC. Yeah. What do you do when life doesnt fit into neat categories? Kelly Corrigan:Dont get crumbs on the baby. Theres a title. Just see who you can bump into out there. She died this morning, and I was just sick to my stomach. I mean, Im totally coming to see you. I went to see her one time. Kelly Corrigan:My instinct is to fix, cause I feel Im almost sure I can. She lives in Philly and I live in California. They hate it. You say something thats so weird cause I say it all the time, so when I read it I thought, Did you reach inside my brain? You adopted the phrase, Onward as a bit of a motto. I thoroughly enjoyed your podcast and listening to you both. And you know, it was so weird, but dying was the easier part of it. (To be fair, Ive loved all that I have listened to). Inspiring and thought-provoking interviews conducted by bestselling author Kelly Corrigan. Kate Bowler:Words matter. You also realized there was incredible parenting magic in the phrase, Tell me more. So, what is this witchcraft you speak of? Kelly Corrigan:Yeah. She reflects on her love and loss through ordinary moments and everyday sayings. Forever? I went into this tiny bathroom in Baltimore in our office building, and just cried my eyes out, and it wasnt even because she died. Theres a whole world out there happening, and you can step into all kinds of things, and you dont need to know why youre leaving the house. Del Seymour and Kelly Corrigan in Lafayette, CA. Kate Bowler:Yeah. Michael highlights the importance of . Its not in my family. -Kilpy Kelly Corrigan:Yeah. Now, eleven years post-cancer, Im still learning to show up and be of use in my life, my marriage, my family and my work for the display of His splendor. I just want to show up and try to be of use. Then cancer hit. Kelly also hosts her own podcast Kelly Corrigan Wonders, which she describes as a "place for people who like to laugh while they think." On the podcast, she tackles a different question every month in a series of weekly conversations with some of her favorite thinkers. I was wrong. Take Care Kate, The result is "Think Twice: Michael Jackson," a 10-part podcast from Audible and Wondery that will be available exclusively on Audible and Amazon Music on Thursday. The Best Show with Tom Scharpling. Were just a series of days and interactions. Kate Bowler:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Kelly Corrigan:And Im getting to walk with them way longer on their road, and I felt this sense that I could never possibly deserve that, that Im not that great a person, or a mom. Im sorry I didnt go see your mom. Thats not the same as saying I was wrong not to try to know her. Its these seemingly trivial moments. We have a lot to learn from you. Kate Bowler:So, todays conversation is about developing language to move us forward when life is well, chronic. Shed do anything. I heard your friend died, and I just couldnt bear to call them back. She reflects on her love and loss through ordinary moments and everyday sayings. I think we should be talking about five percent of the time. Kelly Corrigan:Hearts dont idle. For what Ive just seen in the last six months, I should be different. I think people think that if you have a diagnosis, or somethings happened to you that you should know because youre proof of it. Kelly Corrigan Wonders: Everything Happens for a - Apple Podcasts Ill read you a little bit from the very end of that chapter because the thing that he was saying I think is, This is how it goes.. I mean, people are getting colon cancer at your age all the time. Kate Bowler:Yeah. Kate Bowler:Theres this other phrase, I was wrong, that has real power, and you learned that in a really intense way when your grandma died. Thats where its at. A former newspaper columnist and four time bestselling . How does change actually happen? Then the ocean with its waves so vast, impossible to touch bottom, then a maze, then a mountain, then seasons, a natural disaster. The idea that any day could be this huge day, I dont know, that really gets me out of bed, you know? You know, I honestly think I only say Im sorry, and not, I was wrong. I think I might try it. Im not sure where the bar is set at in normalcy though. I didnt engage with her. Im coming. Mary Anne, Mary Anne, I didnt do it. Kate Bowler:Yeah. I was wondering if you could tell me about that. Kelly Corrigan:So, I say at the end of this chapter, Shouldnt loss change a person for the better? The book is full of warm and witty blessings found within the struggles of our shared humanity, from theNew York Timesbestselling authors ofGood Enough. The ambiguity is quite isolating. Sometimes, were just lacking a bit of language. So, Dont eat a hamster is our version of Dont jump to conclusions.. Kelly Corrigan:My friend Andy Lotts, who is Lizs husband, told me about it, cause hes a mom now, and so we talk mom talk. Im so grateful to hear the ways youre connecting with Kate and Kelly. Like the other day when I was being wheeled into a procedure, the nurse looked at my chart, and then casually said, Colon cancer. Kate Bowler:You and I are super chatty people, but you make an amazing pitch for silence, and I am all for it, because everyone always had these go-to things to say with me like, You can do it, or Youre so brave, and all the things that made me feel like I was on the other side of plexiglass. I do need to be reminded of this often There are only two days in the year that nothing can be done. I had to make it into a vest to remove it from my body with the tag still on it, you know? Onwards! Kelly, this is such a good reminder that sometimes we inherit tough histories and mottos. I mean, maybe I was projecting, maybe whatever he said in that moment, maybe if he had said peanut butter, and jelly, wed be talking about peanut butter and jelly, but it totally resonated for me in the way that a song lyric does where youre like, I dont know what that means exactly, but Im going to write that down, and put it in my wallet, and its interesting. Ask the dancers, and the athletes, the painters, and musicians. Kelly Corrigan:Well you know, its so funny. My mantra for the last decade plus has been show up and be of use. Kelly shares her own go to mantra as well as two blessings from frequent Kelly Corrigan Wonders guest Kate Bowler and her co-author/friend/podcast producer Jessica Richies beautiful and extremely useful book: The Lives We Actually Have (100 Blessings for Imperfect Days). Kelly Corrigan:Yeah. Tell Me More - Kate Bowler Trust your Gut? with Annie Jean Baptiste - Kelly Corrigan Wonders (podcast) P.S. I was healthy, and then I was sick, and now Im feeling pretty good, and even though the language around immunotherapy isnt perfect, I can happily say that I am in remission. Ryland shined brightly - especially in the darkest places. Recently I coined maintain the faith, exit with grace. Kate Bowler:Well I think part of it, and this gets to another phrase that you write about which is I dont know, but you and I, it sounds like, have given up on certainties as a way to cope with that, both having been through cancer, and also I think both realizing that people really dont like it when you say, I dont know.. Shed do anything. Kelly Corrigan:Yeah. I was wrong not to try to ease her days in some way.. Despair defies description. Kelly Corrigan:Like, Oh, well we still have sex, so were definitely not going to get a divorce, or you know, Oh my husband doesnt travel, so then were definitely not gonna get a divorce, or you know, I never smoked cigarettes, so Im definitely not going to get breast cancer. So, Dont eat a hamster is our version of Dont jump to conclusions.. Shed do dishes all day and into the night to just get to listen to her children, just to get to watch them through a one-way glass, you know? Kate Bowler:Well I think part of it, and this gets to another phrase that you write about which is I dont know, but you and I, it sounds like, have given up on certainties as a way to cope with that, both having been through cancer, and also I think both realizing that people really dont like it when you say, I dont know.. Tomorrow, March 28, 2023 would have been his 40th birthday. I mean, that means shes with them. Kate Bowler:Well, the quote that really resonated with me is when you said, They are moving onward, not away from you, but with you. Hes just one of those people that you think, God, if I could get five minutes with him, Id just tell him my biggest problem, and hed just say something in seven words that would solve everything., Kelly Corrigan:So, eventually I went up to him, and I said, Im caught between these two worlds, this world where Im full of clarity and insight and gratitude, and Im seeing all the big colors of the world. Everything Happens : NPR Kindly, I was in a big, big rush to get in front of him, and say my apology, and be returned to a state of grace, but the fact is that his mom died. Im so compassionate to that thing that happens every time you tell someone that you had cancer, which is the other person trying to figure out why its not going to happen to them as fast as possible. Kate Bowler:I guess Ill see you soon. That sounds really right to me. 5-Minute Listen. Required fields are marked *. Shes not going to hold their babies.. Kelly Corrigan:Im telling you what, man, you can not believe how much I use this, and you can not believe how still it is not my natural instinct. You can watch this episode of Tell Me More anytime at pbs.org/kelly.Thank you also to the Lafayette Library and Learning Center. Dont misread this, my mother was a loving woman, but she passed on this legacy, this painful legacy shed been burdened with, that women should take up as little space as possible, risk as little as possible, and hide our lights lest we make fools of ourselves. But first, we need you to sign in to PBS using one of the services below. Lives dont last. I found that instructive. I didnt do it. Kelly Corrigan Wonders on RadioPublic Kate Bowler:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Kelly Corrigan:Have you ever heard that potted plant theory? Thank you for helping me think more deeply about my words; not just the words I speak to others but the words I speak to myself. Like, Today could be this day, well, you know, today I met you, now were friends, and who knows whats going to happen now? Id say that there is definitely such a thing as a questioning Christian. You understand what you did wrong., Kelly Corrigan:So to me, that felt very different than saying, Im sorry. Kelly kicks off a new series on BELIEF, delving into topics like the meaning of life, finding purpose, why faith, service and gratitude matter, and more with Dr. MIchael Murray, former Philosophy Professor and current President & CEO of the Arthur Vining Davis Foundations . But the fact is if I said, Tell me more, go on, what else, youd say the next thing, and the next thing, and the next thing, and it would be like the thing behind the thing, behind the thing is where really the pain is, and if I had waited way longer, I wouldve been able to say, Oh, I understand.. Kelly reads everything from eulogies to retirement speeches and on February 19th, she . Kelly Corrigan:Well you know, sometimes the trivial is tragic. Claire, Kelly Corrigan:And then she died, and my dad called, and my dad had nothing but positive things to say to me my entire life, and he said, You should have gone to see your grandmother more. Youre going to slide around, you know, youre going to deserve your life a little more some days than others. Mahra:Ive been singing these lines from a song by the Avett Brothers to my kids for years, and it goes like this. Kelly Corrigan:So, I had to wait, and then finally we had a window, and I said, I was wrong. She had ovarian cancer, so she had fought it for seven years, and it was the kind of thing where I felt like I urgently wanted to deserve my life. She's a podcaster. It doesnt end, and also you cant live there. Kate Bowler:Yeah. Youre going to slide around, you know, youre going to deserve your life a little more some days than others. Youve shared some gems with us. Enjoy an intimate and heartfelt interview series hosted by author Kelly Corrigan.MoreMore. Whos going to do this? We can remove the first show in the list to add this one. I was wrong not to try to ease her days in some way.. Kilpy Like, Today could be this day, well, you know, today I met you, now were friends, and who knows whats going to happen now? Hosted by four-time New York Times bestselling author Kelly Corrigan, the show features insightful conversations with notable guests, reflecting on their lives and the impact they can have on their worlds. Its a very learned thing that I have to insert the words into my mouth, and push them out deliberately, because my instinct is to solve. Kellys guest is actress and author Constance Wu - you may know her from her roles in the breakthrough tv show Fresh Off the Boat and the blockbuster film Crazy, Rich Asians. Warmly, Neal Brennan and Kelly Corrigan have a conversation in NYC. Kelly Corrigan:And so I didnt do it.